arm-netbook

arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk

1079 discussions

need help! getting a bit overwhelmed on lists.oshwa.org
by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 25 Aug '16

25 Aug '16

http://lists.oshwa.org/pipermail/discuss/2016-August/001865.html very similarly minded people, unfortunately using the word "open source" in reference to what are clearly libre principles. if anyone has time i'd really appreciate some help... but also i think people here would genuinely appreciate the opportunity to debate, also there's people there from "open ecology" and many other areas. l. --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

10 18

Verifying firmware
by Raphaël Mélotte 25 Aug '16

25 Aug '16

Hello, First of all I have been following the crowdfunding and mailing list since the first of august (I have been using another email adress) and I have to say I really like every aspect of this project and I highly respect and admire the ideology that goes with the project. I haven't been able to pledge until now but I will make sure to do so as soon as I can and before the crowdfunding ends. I really want to test what an EOMA68 laptop would look and behave like, and I want to replace my tiny Raspberry pi server with another EOMA68 (I will also be willing to buy more powerful computer cards if they ever get created). Since the EOMA68 is entirely free, I was thinking that *theoretically* it should be possible to read and verify every firmware, and/or binaries present to run the chip (I don't really know how to call it so I will call it "microcode"). More and more people are worried about the microcodes that are run on our hardware and being able to verify what is actually running on our machine (when it boots for example) would be comforting. It seems to me that it's the first time the source code for every microcode in a computer will be available, since some projects tried to do so in the past, but never achieved to run 100% without proprietary code (purism, novena, ...). >From a security point of view, open source code is the best option since it allows to check if the code being run isn't malware. However, if I don't verify the code present on my machine, how will I know it is the same code as the source that was analyzed and that it is not malicious code ? That's why I'm asking if it would be possible to read the microcodes present on the chip, and check them against the online source codes (kind of a checksum ?). That way we would be able to know if the code had been tampered with, be it during shipping, after being infected by a malware that was somehow able to change the boot code or some firmware, an evil maid attack, etc. Just to be clear I'm not being paranoid to the point where I would suspect some bad guys inserting malware in my machine during shipping (I guess the country I live in is "libre" enough to not do that, but that's surely not the case for everyone everywhere in the world), and I will probably not try to verify every firmware on the chip, but since this is one of the first truly free system I was asking myself if it would be possible. Also maybe being able to do so easily would attract more people who are deeply focused on security and privacy and would be beneficial to the project. I also understand that as of today, checking every code on a system is more an utopia then a doable thing (you'd also have to check firmware from your keyboard, mouse, webcam, USB flash drive, and pretty much everything you connect to the main board) and may be pointless, but I'm also confident that in the future (maybe distant, maybe not) we will have to be able to do so if we want to keep our digital life private, as everything we do is more and more linked to the digital world, and malware techniques are becoming more and more creative (see for example BadUSB). I'm not a computer scientist and although I do my best to learn how software works, I don't understand everything about hardware and I may be missing some important point that makes my idea impossible to realize. That's why I'm asking it here since you know far more about it then me. Also please forgive my written expression: I'm doing my best to express my ideas clearly, but English isn't my native language and I sometimes don't know how to express myself to be best understood. Anyway, I sincerely hope this project becomes a great success, and that you will be able to make it grow even more. Kind regards, Raphaël Mélotte A Bioengineering student interested in computers

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A20 computer card at 1.2GHz?
by Stefan Monnier 25 Aug '16

25 Aug '16

I see your crowdsupply page lists the SoC as having a dual core A7 running at 1.2GHz. Is that really true? All my A20-based boards seem to be limited to 960MHz. Stefan

2 1

$10K in 24 h ?
by Xavi Drudis Ferran 24 Aug '16

24 Aug '16

Sorry, I'm kind of confused. It's my memory failing me or this last 24 h the campaign got from less than $114000 to more than $124000 ? It was $100000 about 5 days ago ? Made $14000 in 4 days and $10000 in one ? Or am I reading it all wrong ? I mean at this acceleration it could even reach 150000$ by friday, couldn't it ?

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Take responsibility for electronic-waste disposal : Nature News & Comment
by Alexander Ross 24 Aug '16

24 Aug '16

http://www.nature.com/news/take-responsibility-for-electronic-waste-dis posal-1.20345?WT.mc_id=TWT_NatureNews

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Re: [Arm-netbook] Verifying firmware
by Raphaël Mélotte 23 Aug '16

23 Aug '16

> > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 21:55:31 +0100 > From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net> > To: Linux on small ARM machines <arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] Verifying firmware > Message-ID: > <CAPweEDw6dqih5=B-bod2iNU1KzpNFD9NDOhkCu7cHgUrqr2Y1g@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Raphaël Mélotte > <raphael.melotte(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello, > > > > First of all I have been following the crowdfunding and mailing list > since > > the first of august (I have been using another email adress) and I have > to > > say I really like every aspect of this project and I highly respect and > > admire the ideology that goes with the project. > > thanks. it's not quiiite "ideology" - there are genuine sound and > practical business reasons for doing what we're doing. let me put it > another way: when we get to mass-volume levels would you *like* us to > be "yet another proprietary software peddler"? :) > > > > I haven't been able to pledge until now but I will make sure to do so as > > soon as I can and before the crowdfunding ends. I really want to test > what > > an EOMA68 laptop would look and behave like, and I want to replace my > tiny > > Raspberry pi server with another EOMA68 (I will also be willing to buy > more > > powerful computer cards if they ever get created). > > cool. they will. > > > Since the EOMA68 is entirely free, > > the *standard* is open (properly open), the source code is libre, and > the hardware is 99% libre, aiming for 100%. > > > I was thinking that *theoretically* it > > should be possible to read and verify every firmware, and/or binaries > > present to run the chip (I don't really know how to call it so I will > call > > it "microcode"). > > the only "microcode" - using the phrase you use - that we know of is > the eGON Boot ROM, which hno has extracted and > part-reverse-engineered, more info here: > http://linux-sunxi.org/EGON#eGON.BRM > > > More and more people are worried about the microcodes that > > are run on our hardware and being able to verify what is actually > running on > > our machine (when it boots for example) would be comforting. It seems to > me > > that it's the first time the source code for every microcode in a > computer > > will be available, since some projects tried to do so in the past, but > never > > achieved to run 100% without proprietary code (purism, novena, ...). > > there are actually plenty - many of them early beaglebone designs > especially those around the AM Sitara series - but it's the first that > could be deployed usefully in mass-volume scenarios as opposed to > "engineering only" boards. > > > From a security point of view, open source code > > no it isn't... *libre* source code is... > > > is the best option since it > > allows to check if the code being run isn't malware. However, if I don't > > verify the code present on my machine, how will I know it is the same > code > > as the source that was analyzed and that it is not malicious code ? > > well if you can't do it, at least someone else can. > > > That's > > why I'm asking if it would be possible to read the microcodes present on > the > > chip, and check them against the online source codes (kind of a checksum > ?). > > no idea. > > > That way we would be able to know if the code had been tampered with, be > it > > during shipping, after being infected by a malware that was somehow able > to > > change the boot code or some firmware, an evil maid attack, etc. > > well, we picked an "unbrickable" processor precisely so that you > could download binaries / source from a *trusted* source and re-flash > everything. > > > Just to be clear I'm not being paranoid to the point where I would > suspect > > some bad guys inserting malware in my machine during shipping (I guess > the > > country I live in is "libre" enough to not do that, > > you _are_ joking, right? :) it's *well known* that the NSA unboxes > Cisco products and other routers, installs replacement firmware *AND > CHIPS*, then boxes them back up and sends them on their way. there's > even photographs online of them carrying out these practices. > > > > but that's surely not > > the case for everyone everywhere in the world), and I will probably not > try > > to verify every firmware on the chip, but since this is one of the first > > truly free system I was asking myself if it would be possible. > > yes. > > > I also understand that as of today, checking every code on a system is > more > > an utopia then a doable thing (you'd also have to check firmware from > your > > keyboard, mouse, webcam, USB flash drive, and pretty much everything you > > connect to the main board) > > true... but here you *can* check the STM32F072's firmware (which > controls the keyboard, mouse and PMIC), and you can re-flash on every > boot should you so wish... bear in mind that's going to wreck the > on-board flash at some point, but you can do it. > > > > and may be pointless, but I'm also confident that > > in the future (maybe distant, maybe not) we will have to be able to do > so if > > we want to keep our digital life private, as everything we do is more and > > more linked to the digital world, and malware techniques are becoming > more > > and more creative (see for example BadUSB). > > yep.... not a lot that can be done about that. shoving 240v AC down > a 5v DC line is guaranteed to be disastrous, no matter what the piece > of electronics is. > > > I'm not a computer scientist and although I do my best to learn how > software > > works, I don't understand everything about hardware and I may be missing > > some important point that makes my idea impossible to realize. That's why > > I'm asking it here since you know far more about it then me. > > > > Also please forgive my written expression: I'm doing my best to express > my > > ideas clearly, but English isn't my native language and I sometimes don't > > know how to express myself to be best understood. > > doing pretty well so far > > > Anyway, I sincerely hope this project becomes a great success, and that > you > > will be able to make it grow even more. > > thanks. > > > > Thank you for your precise answer ! (As every of your answers I saw on the mailing list) Ideology probably wasn't the right word, of course I wouldn't like you to be "yet another proprietary software peddler". By the way if I got it right, you say 99% of the hardware is open because only the mali GPU isn't documented ? (but we won't use it) That is awesome ! I really didn't know that NSA was already intercepting shipments before they arrive to their destination, now I'm even more convinced that we need libre hardware for everyone. What I forgot to ask was if it was possible to read and possibly reflash firmware from the userspace, or would it require some special hardware to be connected directly to the chip like when flashing libreboot ? Anyway I guess I will find out by myself as investigate more about it. PS: I miss-configured my subscription to the mailing list and couldn't reply directly to your message. I hope this reply will get where it has to be, linked to the right thread.

2 2

Libreboot and EOMA68
by Paul Boddie 23 Aug '16

23 Aug '16

I found this message... http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-08/msg00048.html ...via the Libreboot site... https://libreboot.org/ ...which currently features the following text: "Please back the EOMA68 libre laptop. They are seeking RYF endorsement from the FSF and the FSF have published an article about them already. All they need is to win backing for the project, so that they can start shipping. If they succeed, we want to integrate the firmware for it into libreboot. See this mailing list post." The message itself includes this: "If you can afford to buy one, please back that campaign. I will be doing so too. We're working on integrating a new build system in libreboot which should make uboot and other boot firmware besides coreboot easier to merge. EOMA68 is the first non-coreboot target that I'm interested in for the next release of libreboot." Paul

7 11

EOMA68 RYF certification, FSF, explanation
by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 22 Aug '16

22 Aug '16

https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/fsf-ryf-background this update is mostly for archive / historical purposes so that it can be referred to in the future, for anyone wishing to understand why software libre is an important integral part of a business model. most notably i managed to find that article about the intel / valve-steam collaboration. also really important was paul's post as it gave a different perspective. i'm tracking down leads so that when i go to visit allwinner i can propose a few things for them. l. --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

3 4

Congrats!
by Joakim Seeberg 20 Aug '16

20 Aug '16

A long time ago I made a donation for one of the revisions of EOMA68. And it has been fun following the development. And just now I placed an order for a laptop kit and one EOMA68. Fantastic that you got this far Luke, congrats! -- Kind regards Mvh. Joakim

2 1

2 ideas
by Wolfgang Romey (hier) 20 Aug '16

20 Aug '16

Hello Luke, two ideas: Have you ever thought aboat contacting Fairphone? They have similar goals. Maybe you could write an guest-article on their blog. - It would be great, if you could partner with them in the future for producing the Card with their fair substances and fairer working conditions. Would it be possible to get a card wit preinstalled nextcloud? Wolfgang -- Wolfgang Romey Krokusstraße 37 47249 Duisburg geraspora: https://pod.geraspora.de/people/9002a1416a4e4a9d loadaverage: https://loadaverage.org/hier tox: wolfgang_romey(a)toxme.se Bitte Anhänge nur in freien Formaten. Die Nachricht ist signiert, der öffentliche Schlüssel wird auf Anfrage zugeleitet.

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