arm-netbook

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1082 discussions

mailing list etiquette
by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 18 Jun '17

18 Jun '17

On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 6:35 PM, <ronwirring(a)safe-mail.net> wrote: >> ron hi please remember to cut context. there is 3 paragraphs >> comprising several hundred words, repeated, followed by a single >> sentence and then a single-sentence question. >> >> these last two sentences are the only relevant context: the rest of >> the context you have forced over 400 people to re -read unnecessarily. > > > > I have not forced anyone to read anything. ron: there are over 400 people on this list. many of them receive hundreds of messages per day. they read them all. they do not know that you are violating the rules of the list until they begin to read your message. when they find, after several seconds of scrolling down, that their time has been completely wasted because nothing has been added, they are going to be pissed. > Anyone may ignore my emails. ron: if the mailing list administrator tells you that you're disobeying the rules of interaction which put people to significant inconvenience, do you believe that it is ok to respond with such a sentence? > You know where to look. It is where there are no '>'. and how long does it take to do that? it takes a long time, ron. people are forced to scroll down for a significant amount of time. if they have a hundred or several hundred messages to read each day, and they are forced to scroll down more than is necessary only to find that there was nothing new added, because there is one person who does not respect the rules which make their lives easier, how long do you think they are going to continue to contribute to that llist? > I prefere if others leave the full text in their emails. that is fine if you are interacting privately: it is not fine when you are interacting with 400 people. you have been asked multiple times to respect the rules of the list. > I prefere to not delete text in my own replies. your personal preferences are not relevant when it comes to interacting with 400 other people. > I cannot make that decision about my replies? yes you can, because you are being requested to do so by the mailing list administrator. out of respect for others, you are being requested to follow the rules of interaction set for this list. you do not set the rules for this list: i set the rules for this list. i get the impression that you are not really listening or respecting what i am saying, ron. that therefore forces me to escalate matters. if you do not respond indicating that you intend to respect the rules of this list (standard netiquette) then reluctantly i will be forced to escalate to moderation of your messages until such time as you do listen. this will place a huge burden of extra work onto me, as for every single message that you send i will receive a notification, then i will be forced to go to a web interface, then i will be forced to read and review your message in full, and then either approve or reject i, writing a review each and every time explaining why your message is being rejected, should it be rejected. do you, through not listening to what you are being told, *genuinely* wish to force me to take such action? what do you think the implications would be of forcing me to take such action to protect this list and its members? would you agree that it would be a good idea for you to say "whoops i'm sorry, i understand now that this is serious, i will listen and follow your advice so that i do not inconvenience so many people" ? l.

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Fwd: [trinity-devel] TDE Fundraiser
by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 17 Jun '17

17 Jun '17

please do distribute to interested parties / lists, TDE (aka KDE 3.5) is strategically quite important as it's one of the remaining comprehensive desktop environments that is also light-weight and relevant. l. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Timothy Pearson <kb9vqf(a)pearsoncomputing.net> Date: Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 7:19 PM Subject: [trinity-devel] TDE Fundraiser To: trinity-devel(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA224 All, It's that time of year again! As we look toward the release of Debian Stretch and another version of TDE, I'd like to ask for your continued support to help keep TDE online. This year I'm going to try something new. If you donate $40 to TDE [1], I will allow 2 months access to the nightly build repositories that now include Debian Stretch and Raspbian Jessie. Additionally, I'd like those who donate at this level to nominate two bugs that I will personally look into (excepting those relating to support for Wayland, Qt4/Qt5, or Webkit). This way your donations have a direct and positive effect on TDE itself, and TDE can continue to exist in its current form. Personally I would suggest the LibreOffice integration bug or possibly an update of the GTK3 theme engine to fix the rendering bugs as potential candidates, but in the end it's up to you! A full listing of open bugs is available here: http://bugs.trinitydesktop.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=__open__&content=&no_… As always, thank you for your support and continued feedback -- we couldn't develop TDE without it! Tim [1] https://trinitydesktop.org/donate.php -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iFYEARELAAYFAlj3qjAACgkQLaxZSoRZrGEhXwDcDpHwUy8Z77OEEKHrdVMSqlcW 6uT+v3pMwqNAXQDeM9WnwPpziYGFQIsfb5I6DiVBLNsZaBL2tab+yw== =FFOS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

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Re: [Arm-netbook] bunnie about riscv
by ronwirring＠Safe-mail.net 17 Jun '17

17 Jun '17

-------- Original Message -------- From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net> Apparently from: arm-netbook-bounces(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing <arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] bunnie about riscv Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 09:30:45 +0100 > ron hi please remember to cut context. there is 3 paragraphs > comprising several hundred words, repeated, followed by a single > sentence and then a single-sentence question. > > these last two sentences are the only relevant context: the rest of > the context you have forced over 400 people to re -read unnecessarily. I have not forced anyone to read anything. Anyone may ignore my emails. You know where to look. It is where there are no '>'. I prefere if others leave the full text in their emails. I prefere to not delete text in my own replies. I cannot make that decision about my replies? > > please consider the impact that you are having on the members of the > list by following the required etiquette which, by following it, i am > permitting you to be a member of this list. > > thank you for understanding and respecting the interaction rules of this list. > > l. > > On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 6:30 PM, <ronwirring(a)safe-mail.net> wrote: > > >> > We should have libre software hdds and ram. > >> > >> Can you elaborate on that a bit? I don't understand what you mean. > > https://www.theverge.com/2015/2/16/8048243/nsa-hard-drive-firmware-virus-st… > > > > > > > > > > Devices like hdd, ram, sd card have their own system software. > > You cannot access it and do not know what it can do. > > https://opencores.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook(a)files.phcomp.co.uk

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DIY laptop part 1: screen
by David Niklas 17 Jun '17

17 Jun '17

BTW: This little series has little to nothing to do with the eoma68. Don't feel obligated to reply. Hello, For a while now I've been working on making myself a new laptop. I wanted one that was 17 in. wide. It has proven difficult to locate a screen, I have search alibaba, amazon, and a few other assorted site without success. I need one that has: 1. Matte finish 2. 17 in. wide, not diagonally. 3. eDP 30 pin connector or MIPI-DSI connector. 4. 16.7 Million colours -- that would be 8-bit colour as opposed to 6-bit which you can find many of on alibaba. 5. Preferably, it is a touchscreen. If anyone has suggestions please point me in the right direction. Thanks, David

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Re: [Arm-netbook] bunnie about riscv
by ronwirring＠Safe-mail.net 14 Jun '17

14 Jun '17

-------- Original Message -------- From: Neil Jansen <njansen1(a)gmail.com> Apparently from: arm-netbook-bounces(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing <arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] bunnie about riscv Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 11:07:56 -0400 Thank you for the information. I have watched a rutkowska video on how complicated intel's management features are. Difficult. > On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 11:54 AM, <ronwirring(a)safe-mail.net> wrote: > > > It was very informative. A lot of the technical matter I did not > understand. > > This was a GREAT talk. Thanks for the link. > > > Can you explain: > > 23.04 The 2 lowermost boxes? > > 1) PDK / Foundries. The factories in which the chips are made in. They're > not open. They're proprietary and there's a implication of trust. > 2) Equipment / Raw Materials. The equipment that makes the chips and the > raw materials that go into the chips. All a very cloudy and and murky area > that is not open, and very proprietary. > > He's basically saying that those that want *100%* open source hardware > would require infinite recursion down to the raw components, which is > impossible. That's the whole point of the talk. The 'impedance mismatch' > thing is a sort of metaphor to describe the unrealistic expectations of > those idealists that want 100% open source hardware. He's saying it cannot > happen today. And BTW I've met Bunnie on several occasions, he's legit, > and you can trust what he's saying to be technically correct. He's the > real deal. > > > What is a stepper? > > A stepper motor. That is, do you trust the motors that move the machines > that made the integrated circuits? > > > What is fuse? > > See this link: > https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/1262/what-are-atmel-fuses > > > > 25.15 The 4 lowermost boxes? > > * BIOS > * Firmware > * Hidden / fused silicon blocks - Blocks of silicon on the chip that aren't > usually turned on, but are there. Lots of big vendors are doing this now: > Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and it's anyone's guess as to what their real purpose > is. That leads to conspiracy theories, as Bunnie said. This is a problem > because if you put a chip like this into an open source laptop, it begs the > question of what would happen if something turned on that section and > started execution code from it? Nobody will know until (A) documentation > is leaked from the company or (B) someone reverse engineers it. Basically > if you use anything application processor chip made in the last 5-10 years, > you probably have some hidden / fused silicon blocks doing god knows what. > * Pre-boot microcode - Microcode (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcode) > that executes BEFORE your computer boots. This is a big deal, because > everything that happens after this point can be considered suspect. > (similar to how a boot virus would spread because it executes first). > * IP industry practices - Intellectual property used by silicon > manufacturers that are not open. What he's saying is, say that you're a > silicon vendor and you just bought a intellectual property from ARM to make > an ARM chip. They're giving you HDL (hardware description language) and > netlists (a large list of the connections to be made in the die), and guess > what, they gave them to you encrypted so that their intellectual property > is safe. You (the guy that runs a third party chip factory) cannot review > or inspect the intellectual property that ARM gave you. The point here is > that unless you're using an open source (RISC-V, etc) core, then using an > ARM isn't really 100% open source hardware. > * Mask trojans & glitches - These are malicious things in the CPU die > itself, that even if you were looking at the silicon die under a microscope > and studying it, you'd still completely miss it. Very nasty but they Remarkable that you cannot do a verification using a microscope. > exist. Hackaday.com has a lot of interesting articles that break these > sort of things down in layman's terms. Very interesting. Basically > because these exist, there's no way to know that you are really executing > what you think you are executing unless you built the foundry and > supervised the chips being made, and analyzed everything that went into the > manufacture of them. It's a trust problem. > > These are all highly complex subjects that hardware engineers like Bunnie > deal with a lot, and other (I'll say idealist) software guys probably have > never thought of. They're important in that when you realize that they're > there, you will then understand how silly wanting 100% open hardware really > is. It's a huge problem that hardly anybody is trying to fix. > > > Recently the 6502 was completely dissected and recreated, so that's one of > the only fully documented (and I'd say fully trusted) cores out there > today. And that was made probably before I was born. Everything since > that should be assumed to be compromised and < 100% open. Oh, and even > then, the 6502 would have to hook up to OTHER chips like flash, RAM, and > whatever generates the video and handles the peripherals. Those have not > been completely dissected, and could be suspect. Do you see what Bunnie > means now? That's the impedance mismatch. > > We should have libre software hdds and ram. > P.S. my apologies to LKCL and others, I don't have a plain text email > client. > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook(a)files.phcomp.co.uk

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Re: [Arm-netbook] bunnie about riscv
by ronwirring＠Safe-mail.net 14 Jun '17

14 Jun '17

From: Neil Jansen <njansen1(a)gmail.com> > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 4:38 PM, <ronwirring(a)safe-mail.net> wrote: > > Thank you for the information. > > I have watched a rutkowska video on how complicated > > intel's management features are. > > Difficult. > > That's why I'm here, lol. The Intel stuff is getting bad enough that it > has me wondering what I can do for the open source hardware world. Moving > to ARM via EOMA68 is a good near-term solution, but even that's not going > to be 100% trustable at lest by bunnie's standards in the lecture. > Something like RISC-V has the potential to get there, but as he pointed > out, even that's not completely open. I think right now the important > thing is to just be an early adopter of this stuff to show that the > market's there. bunnie broke the demographics down pretty well, there's > definitely money to be made. Back to Intel though. It makes me want to > jump on eBay and pick up some older vintage Intel CPU's that didn't have > the management features, but obviously there's no way to know if those > aren't blown wide open by other means. Man, very interesting times we live > in. > > > > Remarkable that you cannot do a verification using a microscope. > > You can do exactly this, and it'll get you to maybe 99% of the way there. > Companies like ChipWorks do exactly this for money. Others do it for hobby > (see: http://www.visual6502.org/, http://siliconpr0n.org/, > https://zeptobars.com/en/, http://www.righto.com/). It can often get great > results. bunnie was playing devils advocate by saying even if you did > this, there are still things that can be present but in an obfuscated > manner, that could be malicious or careless. This doesn't really mean to > throw the baby out with the bathwater. Having a reverse engineered CPU > with a small possibility of shenanigans is still better than having a 100% > proprietary CPU or a 50% proprietary CPU. Security through obscurity and > all that. > > > > We should have libre software hdds and ram. > > Can you elaborate on that a bit? I don't understand what you mean. https://www.theverge.com/2015/2/16/8048243/nsa-hard-drive-firmware-virus-st… Devices like hdd, ram, sd card have their own system software. You cannot access it and do not know what it can do. https://opencores.org/ > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook(a)files.phcomp.co.uk

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Re: [Arm-netbook] modifying a 7 inch notebook cabinet toacceptapccard
by ronwirring＠Safe-mail.net 13 Jun '17

13 Jun '17

> On 10/06/17 06:03, ronwirring(a)Safe-mail.net wrote: > > About the battery. If I can find an usb power bank having the right > > specifications, I could then use the power bank to power the > > computer and if I wanted to be able to charge the battery and > > have the computer turned on at the same time, I could get > > a charger with 2 usb connectors? > > With a power bank this might work, because they (AFAIK) all have their > charging circuitry inside the power bank and take a straight-up voltage > source to charge. It won't make too much difference how you connect them > as long as you have adequate gauge wires for all connections. > > If you're dealing with Li-ion cells, it's not recommended. It has to do > with how Li-ion charging works. In short the charge schedule (most > notable in a "fast" charge, meaning anything less than 5 hours or so) is > constant current at a rate the battery can handle to voltage, and then > constant voltage as the current tapers off to nearly nothing. > > The upshot of this is that trying to power a device with the > battery/charger combo while charging the battery will confuse any decent > charger (and if it isn't a decent charger you SHOULD NOT use it). The > only way around this is a charge controller designed for such use that > has three sets of terminals. One for a source, one for battery, and one > for load. The charge controller is then able to distinguish the load > from the battery charge current and charge it intelligently. Your lowermost section, I do not follow. Let us assume you somehow are able to get the battery bank into the computer's cabinet. Let us say, you use an usb port on the usb battery bank to both charge the usb battery bank and power supply the pc card. In order to power the pc card, you would have an usb cable connecting the power bank and the pc card. I have no power banks. Looking around, it appears power banks have a port for getting charged and one for power supplying devices. In general, are you sure, you cannot charge a power bank and simultaneously have it power supplying a device? If the power bank can be charged and power supply a device simultaneously you would connect another usb cable from the charger which charges the power bank to the power bank. Else if the power bank gets empty, you would remove the usb cable connecting the power bank and the pc card. Then connect an usb cable from the charger of the power bank to the power bank. I suggest to use a https://www.att.com/chargers/att-42a-dual-usb-low-draw-universal-wall-charg… if you want to charge the power bank and turn on the pc card at the same time. One usb cable from the charger to the power bank. One usb cable form the charger to the pc card. > > Tor > > -- > Tor Chantara > http://www.fineartmarquetry.com/ > 808-828-1107 > GPG Key: 2BE1 426E 34EA D253 D583 9DE4 B866 0375 134B 48FB > *Be wary of unsigned emails* > Stop spying: http://www.resetthenet.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook(a)files.phcomp.co.uk

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Re: [Arm-netbook] why are notebook devices not usb?
by David Niklas 13 Jun '17

13 Jun '17

On Sat, 27 May 2017 18:56:18 +0100 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net> wrote: > On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Christopher Havel > <laserhawk64(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Money. It's cheaper to do it that way.. > > yyep. this s pretty much.. errr... on the money > > > There's also the form factor to consider -- to an extent, there are no > > standards for laptop gadgetry because there's no way to do that. > > Different laptop sizes and shapes require differently-sized and > > -shaped crap inside. > > ... all completely optimised and customised based around what they > can get hold of, or what the reference design from intel is (which > will have specific power requirements and thermal requirements)...then > there is the constant demand for "thin-ness" which, as chris says, > means that a CUSTOM CONNECTOR gets ordered and made... and you can't > get hold of them. > > ron i wrote a long time ago when developing the tablet, about using a > single embedded controller which only costs $1, instead of putting in > a $1 USB hub, a $1.50 USB camera, a $1 USB audio IC and so on. <snip> Do you still know where your write up is? Thanks, David

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EOMA68 card news
by Nick Hardiman 12 Jun '17

12 Jun '17

Where should I look for news about EOMA68 card production? http://rhombus-tech.net/ home is out of date. https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates has May’s update about 3D printing, I guess for the micro-desktop and laptop. http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/pipermail/arm-netbook/ has plenty of threads, mainly kicking ideas around. Thanks, Nick

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FYI: risc-v 6 workshop proceedings 2017 now available
by David Niklas 12 Jun '17

12 Jun '17

This is just me trying to be friendly and informative. Talks are here (I've not listened to them yet): https://riscv.org/2017/05/6th-risc-v-workshop-proceedings/ You're welcome, David

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